JOSH SCOGIN OF THE CHARIOT: THE VINCE NEILSTEIN BRAIN-PICKING SESSION

(Photo by Chetan Patel for MetalSucks. More pics from their 2009 NYC show with Gojira here)

Good interviews are made by good interview subjects, not my own boring ass… and so it was with Josh Scogin, the verbose and opinionated frontman of The Chariot, whose recent album Long Live is still fucking my face off. The following is definitely one of the most engaging interviews I’ve done in some time.

Scogin had a lot to say about the reaction Long Live has received, particularly the fact that fans and music critics alike seem to dig it; mostly he’s just psyched that so many people like it and humbled by the fact that people whose job it is to listen to music all day hear something special in it. Scogin was happy to chime in on why he thinks that’s the case, four albums into the band’s career: the entire process of recording Long Live was filled with spontaneity, rare in this day and age of military-like pre-production and recording to click-tracks. This was especially true when it came to the mind-blowingly cool video for “David De La Hoz,” the idea for which was completely organic and spontaneous — but more on that from Scogin in the interview.

My chat with Scogin after the jump.

What tour are you guys on right now?

It’s the Silverstein tour with Pierce the Veil, Miss May I, and a Bullet for Pretty Boy. Pretty fun.

How’s that going for you guys? You guys are obviously way heavier than any of those bands.

Yeah, it’s really cool. We definitely see that “who are these dudes” kind of mentality a little bit, but we’re okay with that. At the end of the day it seems like people are either into it or at least entertained. [Laughs] I can’t complain, but it’s definitely funny because these ticket prices are a little higher than the people that would come see the Chariot would typically pay. There will be a handful of kids that know our songs, but for the most part we usually start off looking at blank stares and then by the end of it they seem to be kind of moving around because they know that’s what you should be doing. They definitely don’t know the music, but it’s cool. That’s the type of tour you want to be on if you want to grow as a musician and as a band. It’s cool.

You guys certainly aren’t new to doing tours like this. I know you’ve done tours with heavy bands but you’ve also done tours with this kind of band. Is it always the same kind of reaction you were just describing or do you see some kind of recognition as the years go on?

It’s similar. It’s a different world. There’s people we play in front of on this tour that come talk to us and say “I never heard anything like it” and you’re just like “whoa, there’s stuff out there that exists. You probably don’t know bands like we know bands.” Anytime we do a tour like this it’s always that sort of blank stare at the beginning, but I feel like this tour is better than the last tour we did that was similar to this, and that tour was better than the tour before it. It’s sort of cool for us to see the people that do know our band that go “I saw you a while back,” but it may not be their cup of tea. They’ll at least say they’re entertained. They don’t hate us, but they’re not going to go out and buy the record because they want to hear melodies and beats that make sense and stuff like that, which we totally understand.

You mentioned that if you want to grow as a band that you have to do tours like this. Do you prefer the sort of more heavier tours where you feel a bit more at home or do you not mind really go out on tours like this one?

I’m totally down with being the odd band out. We really thrive on taking something that should be kind of awkward and making it into our own. At the end of the day, we only know one thing: if the switch is either on or off. There’s really no in between. If they’re ready and they’re prepared and they know what’s about to happen, it’s cool. If they don’t, we still do what we do. We wrote music that’s going to push us to do that. I’m down with being the odd band out because it’s easier to differentiate [us]. If it’s all a whole heavy package . . . if someone doesn’t know who we are or whatever . . . I don’t know. It’s easier to differentiate [on a tour with lighter bands] and I just really feel like a lot of the heavier bands that we would tour with and stuff — obviously that’s cool — I love doing those tours as well because those kids do know what to expect. Sometimes for our show there’s a lot more energy on a heavier tour.

At the end of the day, I love seeing people’s minds opening up to what this even is. Maybe someday it’ll be a stepping stone for them to open their mind and be like, “hey, we don’t necessarily need choruses and melodies.” That’s neither here nor there because we know that we’re not for the masses. It’s fun just to play in front of loads of people every night. That’s a joy for sure.

Moving on to the new album [Long Live], are you happy with the reaction that the album has gotten?

Yeah. It’s weird for us because a lot of the people that listen to us and stuff say that it’s one of the best records we’ve done, which I would have to agree with. Even the critics, whoever those people might be, they all seem to like it. That’s really cool. But in the world that I live in, that’s almost like “wait a minute”. It’s not like we’re trying to get the critics’ approval here; somehow they just liked it. It’s really unique for us to have critics and kids alike loving the record. It’s really pleasant, but we had a conversation that was like “we didn’t do anything [differently].” We’re not changing anything. We’re doing whatever it is that we do to keep on going. At the end of the day people do like it. I don’t know if people buy into the “oh, they gave it 4 stars. I’m going to go buy it” vs. “it got 2 stars.” I don’t know if that stuff happens or not, but it’s cool for us. I’ve never been able to say that before. I’ve never been able to say “whoa, the critics all seem to gather around and give their approval,” which is a funny concept altogether. That’s cool. They definitely hear a lot of bands, so for them to give any kind of approval rating is pretty cool on a personal level.

I’m one of those people. I heard the record and I thought it was awesome. I liked the last one too. That inspired me to write about it. I hope that through doing that that I turned on some people to check you guys out.

That’s awesome.

And of those people who did that, probably a percentage of them would become fans.

Mmm-hmm, yeah. That’s awesome. I’m sure there are people out there. When it comes to movies and stuff, I definitely have a select few [critics] that I’m like, “this guy seems to know what’s up”. If a guy says it’s good, then okay, cool. I’ll go check it out. Any help we can get, we’ll definitely take.

The thing that’s cool about it to me isn’t necessarily getting the good . . . I don’t know. It’s hard. Okay, we’ve gotten approval, that’s cool, but the thing that’s cool to me is that if you’re classifying yourself as any form of a critic, you listen to so many albums, so to get a good review is really cool. If a person comes up and already loves our band and is like “this music is really good. It’s awesome.” I’m super grateful for that, but at the end of the day, they already knew what to expect because they’ve heard us before and they liked the previous records or whatever. That’s really cool, but for a critic to be “whoa”  — I’m sure they listen to 3 other albums that same day or whatever — I don’t know how it works. Someone who listens to music as their job and hears something hopefully different or unique, or hears something in the music and they’re able to pull from that and write about it; it’s really humbling for us. It’s really cool to get that approval, like I said, on a personal level. It’s funny for us — little punk rock kids from Atlanta. It’s like “wait a minute.” It’s pretty cool for us to have both [fans and critics] enjoying the album.

What do you think it is about this record that’s striking a resonant chord with critics and fans? Is there anything different about this record?

For us, every record we do is a little impulsive. We have songs written and we go to the studio, but at the end of the day if we have a better idea (even while we’re tracking it) we’ll run with it. In the past, we did that a little bit. With this record we totally trusted our instincts and totally trusted our guts. The song that’s called “The City,” the whole ending was a big choir chanting. That seems to be a lot of people’s favorite part. It’s funny because we were actually tracking the drums for a completely different ending and out of nowhere (I believe it was me but I’m not sure) someone said “this is pretty cool, but I think something cooler can happen”. We started talking about it right then and there. The drummer had to come back in and be like “what are we going to do?” From there it was like “what if we added this and this and this”. It developed and we’re like “well, let’s try it and see what happens”. Before we knew it, by that night, we had a song done with a completely different ending.

We put a lot of stock in our initial gut instinct. If we think something is lacking, then let’s move it to the next level and run with it. It’s really pleasant for us because it kind of keeps everything fresh and keeps us on our toes. I don’t really know how that equals people liking it other than the fact that it was really fun for us. It was a really fun record because when we got the mix and the masters back, we were hearing a lot of the parts for the first time almost — as close as we could get to hearing it for the first time because we changed it right then and there. It was a really cool and fun process.

It’s really interesting to hear that you guys did it that way because these days most bands will do their pre-production demos and then they’ll go in the studio and record exactly what they did with those. In many cases, they’ll even have done the pre-production with a producer. There’s no experimentation at all in the studio except for maybe textural stuff.

Totally, totally. What’s funny with us is that we had some demo stuff that we had done on our own with Garage Band. We were listening to it just the other day and as it would play, we were like “oh yeah. We forgot that this is how that song sounded before.” That’s really the breathing apparatus about our band, impulsiveness and spontaneousness.

If you see us live, that’s literally . . . we may have a show where everything works perfectly but that’s few and far between. Most cases it’s “this is broken” or “this came out” or “this happened” or we flipped our set around because mid-show we think it’s going to go better. Sometimes it’s really magical. Sometimes you catch a glimpse of the other guitarist or whatever and get that emotion and everyone kind of knows where you’re coming from. Sometimes it’s a complete train wreck.

At the end of the day, I think we’re really good at being on our toes. We don’t want to get mundane with our writing or with our live show. We’re so grateful for people coming out to see us play. Someone might see us (at the most) 4 times this one year. Meanwhile, we’ve played these songs 300 times that year. It’s not that we’ve ever talked about it, we just kind of evolved into this. Basically if we feel like a song would be better than doing another song… we have a set list, but we’ll flip these two because I think it’ll be better for tonight’s crowd and vibe, so we just do it. When it works and all of us are on the same page, it’s a really magical thing. It really trickles out because we are still enjoying ourselves. We’re not going through the motions. We’re keeping it fresh for ourselves. The energy that comes from the crowd is fresh and they got their show that night. They didn’t have Pennsylvania’s show from the night before or whatever’s show the next day. It’s the same exact jokes [with other bands]. They got their own show be it good or bad. Some nights it’s magical, some nights it’s a train wreck. I feel that they got their own show that’s fresh. I think somehow in the subliminal world that all sort of trickles out. People who’ve seen us more than once, they can totally attest to that. It’s its own thing. It’s its own entity that is sort of living and breathing. We just try and see if we can keep ourselves entertained while we’re doing it so that way it never feels like we’re going through the motions.

We don’t ever just want to make a paycheck with this. This is what we want to do. It’s fun. It’s a driving force. It’s really cool to be able to do it.

You guys are definitely known for your live shows, and I think that’s responsible for a large part of your fan base — the intensity. I actually saw you guys for the first time with Gojira. I guess that was in 2009.

Oh right on. That was an interesting tour.

How so?

We were talking earlier about being the odd band out. That kind of works in one way, but one thing that we kind of realized through the years… we’ll do any tour that seems to make any kind of sense. We don’t really care. Any time it’s a proper metal package and we’re on it, it just doesn’t seem to… kids that are truly metal kids. I know that metal is kind of a generic word for a lot of stuff, and it could mean a lot of different things. We did a Sounds of the Underground Tour one year, and it was like Trivium, Cannibal Corpse, and Behemoth. That’s what I think of as “metal.”  Those kids who want to hear shredding and constant double bass and all that stuff. We’re not that band. That’s something that through the years we’ve found “oh, we really don’t fit that at all. Those people just aren’t into what we do.” It’s no big deal. We did that Gojira tour knowing that. The thing with Gojira, they’re kind of different. They have that little different feel about them. Maybe it’s because they’re from France or something, I don’t know. They’re a little different. Either way we weren’t not going to do that tour. It was definitely a lot of blank stares on that tour too.

[Laughter]

At least in NY, kids seemed to dig it.

Yeah, it was cool. I specifically remember NY being pretty cool.

I think everybody, no disrespect to you of course, but I think everybody was so excited to see Gojira headline. There could have been some shitty local band opening — not that you guys are that.

Sure, sure. A “get on with it” sort of thing.

People just would have been going ape shit in that room [no matter what]. It was a cool show for you guys as well. From my perspective, I thought it was great.

Awesome. I appreciate it.

Do you guys ever feel that you run up against some stigma for singing about Christian issues?

I don’t know. I think for the most part if you know us at all, you know that we’re not trying to disrespect anybody or force our beliefs. I didn’t grow up in a Christian home necessarily or anything. I know how it’s like to feel like you’re being pressured. There’s a time that’s right, and I think that everybody who believes different things than us, I think they feel that respect that we have. We’re not trying to force anything. I feel that for the most part that most people are open-minded enough to be like “hey, that’s their belief. They have reasons for believing that. I’m not going to judge their music based on that.” It’s music — you either like it or you don’t. “Oh I love the band, but he loves the lord, so I’m not going to like them.” That’s silly.

I think for the most part it’s cool. It is funny because every interview brings that up. [Laughs] Every single interview. This one has been cool for sure, but I’ve definitely done interviews where it’s all spiritual questions (which I’m okay with) but I’m like “what do you ask any other band?” It’s just weird that somehow, maybe it’s the Christians or maybe it’s the media (I’m not sure), Christian music got its own genre. You don’t talk about the Killers being Mormon rock even though Brandon Flowers is full-fledged Mormon. It’s kind of weird and kind of funny. I’m not opposed to it necessarily. It definitely had its little mark in the music world, especially a few years back. It was a big deal if you were Christian or you were not. There’s plenty of other beliefs out there and stuff. It’s funny that we got called out. Maybe it is our own fault. I don’t know. Maybe we somehow brought it upon ourselves in some way. I think it’s funny though.

I think because of the scene that was created under the Solid State label. You guys having been on that label, you could probably say better than I can what that company operates like. Or if that has anything to do with it. That definitely was the focal point of how you guys are more associated. I’m sure there are plenty of bands that sing about spiritual themes that weren’t on that label and people don’t even know what they sing about.

Totally, totally, yeah. Obviously you’re going to sing about your experiences. You’re going to sing about what you know and don’t know and your struggles. For us, obviously the questions we have and the struggles we have and the revelations we have — whatever it is — all that is in our music because that’s who I am. People ask that all the time. “What about your beliefs? How does that play a part in the music?” It’s like they’re all the same thing. It’s all who I am. I didn’t ride the coattails of someone to become a Christian. Through my life experiences and the things I did and didn’t experience and the things that I’ve come to know that I feel as reality. This is where I am. Obviously any art I create is going to be based on who I am. It’s going to flow. It’s just a funny question because if it wasn’t under the umbrella of Christianity, it would be a weird question to ask.

“Do you like the color blue?” “Do you write about the experiences that you have in your life?” It’s like “well, yeah.” [Laughs] It’s pretty funny.

Totally. Last question here… I have to ask you about the video [for “David De La Hoz”]. I just saw the video… I finished watching it, and then I had to watch it again. Then I had to go and compare it to the recording to see if you guys actually played it live.

Nice! It’s a fun one.

At that point, I was just astounded.

[Laughs] That’s awesome.

How did the idea for this come about? How long did it take to execute it and so on and so forth?

It goes back to what we were talking about earlier: this whole record was super impulsive and super — this is a funny word to use — winging it. We literally were like “let’s record a song live as kind of an homage to our 1st record that we did” (we did all the songs live and stuff). I feel a little bit more comfortable doing it that way anyway. There’s a lot of parts in our songs where we have to watch our drummer because we don’t play to a click or anything. If we’re watching our drummer, everything is natural.

“Let’s record a song live. Okay, cool. If we’re going to do that, we might as well film it. Hey, there’s the actual take that we put on the album. Cool.” This is 2 weeks before we shot the video. We weren’t planning on shooting a video. We were just chitchatting around, probably at a Waffle House or something. We’re sitting there and are like “if we’re going to video it, we might as well do something kind of interesting so it’s not boring [footage of] us playing. Let’s put the drums in the kitchen or something. Yeah, yeah, that’ll be cool.” So one idea came up, another idea came up, another one, a different one and we started getting into it. Matt Goldman was involved — the guy that records our albums.

It was completely impulsive. It wasn’t a planned thing. There wasn’t a budget. No director came. It was like “here’s what we’re going to do guys.” It was completely just faith. We were going to record the songs live anyway. That became what it became.  Two weeks later, I kid you not, we’re at the day of shooting this thing and we already thought of all these different ideas to involved our friends. We have a friend that cuts hair, “let’s have him back here cutting hair. That’ll be hilarious. Ha-ha.” Matt Goldman’s kids, he has this mustard suit and we’re like “hey, you can be playing Nintendo DS in a mustard suit and upstairs his other kid can be playing Nintendo and we’ll show a thing of mustard. Ha-ha, that’ll be funny to us.” It was literally an idea on top of another one on top of another one.

We had a friend that had a video camera come in and film that day. What you see on the film is the second take. We tried it the first time and we got really off and was like “let’s stop, let’s stop.” We said a couple of things, and literally what you see is the second take. It was just one of those things. We were like “if it doesn’t work, we can hit delete and no one will ever know about it.” We were so impressed by it and were like “wow”. We were so stoked because it wasn’t a director with a budget and months of planning. It was just completely winging it and it came together so nicely that we were just like “let’s go ahead and make this its own video and record the song in real life with the tracks and everything for the CD so that it’ll be more of its own thing.” Later we went through and re-recorded the song for the album so that the video could be its own entity.

I’ll bet the label was happy too that they didn’t have to spend money.

So stoked, so stoked. That’s a perfect metaphor in a nutshell of how this record developed. We try to be as pro as we can be. We practice all the time. We had songs going into the studio, but if we had a new better idea, boom, we went into it. We just really trusted our instincts and really trusted each other. I really love the product that came out. I feel it’s a perfect little time stamp of where we were at that moment in life because it wasn’t months and months of writing and months and months of lyrics. It was a few weeks of writing. We had all the songs down. We went into the studio and things changed and evolved right before our eyes. Really, really cool and really good times when I think back on it.

That’s so awesome because most of the time band members hate each others’ guts after being in the studio.

Yeah, and it’s our fourth record. We should totally be hating each others’ guts by now. [Laughs] I think we’re just better friends.

That’s awesome, man. It sounds like it’s a really good time to be in the Chariot. Congrats on everything.

Yeah, super. Thank you.

-VN

Dig The Chariot on MySpace and buy Long Live at Amazon.